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Vinokurov
04-08-2004, 05:45 AM
Hi everyone,

First I have to say ,that I never used a flight simulator.I just installed Il-2FB and am about to conquer the skies. But I am confronted with a vew problems.
1.I installed a Logitech 3Dpro with 12 programmable keys. Which "functions" are best programmed to these keys?

2. After watching all these impressive trainig movies,I could not find any training missions where taking off and landing is exercised. Can I build a mission with these topics?

3. If I fly an aircraft it seems that it heads upwards if my joystick is in netral position.
Are these the charactersitics of an aircraft?

4. Which aircraft would be the best to achieve good flying skills?

Thank you for your help.

Vinokurov
04-08-2004, 05:45 AM
Hi everyone,

First I have to say ,that I never used a flight simulator.I just installed Il-2FB and am about to conquer the skies. But I am confronted with a vew problems.
1.I installed a Logitech 3Dpro with 12 programmable keys. Which "functions" are best programmed to these keys?

2. After watching all these impressive trainig movies,I could not find any training missions where taking off and landing is exercised. Can I build a mission with these topics?

3. If I fly an aircraft it seems that it heads upwards if my joystick is in netral position.
Are these the charactersitics of an aircraft?

4. Which aircraft would be the best to achieve good flying skills?

Thank you for your help.

Zen--
04-08-2004, 06:16 AM
Welcome to FB/AEP!

I'm sure that you will get an enormous number of hours of satisfaction from the game, I'm over two years now with it and still having fun. (IL2 original was my first flight sim also)


1:
I bound flaps up, flaps down, weapon 3 and weapon 4 to my stick, plus split weapon 1 and 2 into the trigger and a spare button on the stick, so that I could fire cannons or MG's selectively.

2: You can create your own mission in the full mission builder to practice take off and landings on, or you can use the quick mission builder to create a mission with only your plane, then practice landing and taking off on your own.

3: The reason planes drift upward is trim...you can bind keys (in controls on the main FB menu) to move your trim up or down to compensate for this. Keep in mind that trim is speed based and if you change speeds, your trim settings will no longer hold the plane level. I usually trim for hands off flight at very high speeds (500kph+) to give as smooth as possible platform for BnZ attacks. Naturally you should experiment some and find what works for you.

4: This is a hotly debated topic for sure, but some planes are easier to fly than others, which can at least help you get the basics of handling your plane and dogfighting until you are ready to move on to more complex aircraft or decide you are happy with what you fly at the moment.

La7 -- Fast, excellent climb, great firepower and amazing stall characteristics. In real life Lavochkin made them easy to fly, they are also that way in FB. It's a good plane to learn the game in and later, when you are really good, it's a downright formidable plane indeed.

Yak3 -- Not as fast but even more agile than the La7, easy to fly also. Very low ammo count though...this one will teach you accuracy because every shot needs to count http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

P51 -- While not agile in turning, the P51 is a great plane to learn BnZ in. It has good climb rate, is pretty fast and has machine guns so that you can get the feel of deflection shooting. If you take the P51D-NA, bind a key to toggle the auto-gyro gunsight on and then watch where the gunsight reticle goes when you are dogfighting. It will show you a lot about where bullets go during heavy manuevers.

Spitfire -- This is a great plane to learn on I think...lots of small .303 caliber MG ammo and some nice 20mm Hispano cannon also. Not very fast but extremely agile.



Those are some of the choices I might recommend if you are just starting out, I think all of those are fun to fly and will get you results pretty well. The P51 is not agile down low so be careful with it, but I wanted to include it because of the K14 auto-gyro site. It's really kind of surprising where your bullets will probably go and the K14 will usually show you. It's a good tool to understand gunnery a little better.


Hope this helps, and welcome again to the forums and to FB!

<S!>

-Zen-
Tracks (http://209.163.146.67/tracks)

caucasian_stud
04-08-2004, 06:21 AM
Welcome, Vinokurov!

To answer some of your questions:

2) there are no training missions that come with the game. The easiest way would be to set up a quick mission (sometimes referred to a QMB) in the main menue. Choose your preferred aircraft and no enemies. Then find an airfield on the map and practice. Needless to say, you must land first as you start all QMB's airborne.

3) That could mean that your joystick isn't calibrated, but more likely that your aircraft isn't trimmed. If you increase the throttle, the plane will go up, rather than accelerate on the same altitude. Find a good pair of keys and map them with "elevator trim up" and "down" respectively. In flight, use them constantly to keep your aircraft level. I actually use the joystick throttle control for this.

4) Oh, tough one! I'd say that your flying skills depend more on the realism settings you prefer. More realism (difficulty)= better flying skills. This is especially true if you some day want to go online.

Many people recommend the Il2 as an easy plane to fly. However, it is not a figher. You might want to avoid the MiG 3 series, as they are difficult to handle. A good and easy figher is the LaGG model 1941. I don't fly it much, though. If you use complex engine management (CEM) you will probably find the "prop pitch" setting difficult. This is especially true for the Bf 109's (Bf 109E is worst). The P-39 Aircobra is prone to get into a spin, and difficult to recover from it. (If you have version 2.0 Aces expansion, disregard the last comment, as all planes somehow can't recover from spins.)

Good luck and don't hesitate to ask more,

The Stud

AlGroover
04-08-2004, 06:56 AM
I just got the same stick as you to replace my old MS Precision 2 and it seems to work very well. Most of the buttons I have bound to view controls. Have a look through the 'controls' section and see the amazing array of non-default possibilities. On the base I've progammed next friendly and next enemy so I can have a look at what the other guys are doing; external and cockpit view so I can check damage; and toggle minimap and toggle airbrake (for Stuka and P38). On top I've got padlock enemy and toggle FOV. Also weapons 1+2 on trigger and weapon 3 on the thumb button. Not exactly the purist's 'full real' setup, but I like it. Hope this gives you a few ideas.

Breeze147
04-08-2004, 07:02 AM
IMHO, the IL-2 is the perfect plane for the beginner, especially since you have never flown a flight sim before. The Sturmovik is a "Ground Pounder" i.e. a light bomber, and pretty slow. The good part is you can abuse it to death. It is impossible to stall or spin in it, you can fly on WEP to your heart's content Well, almost), and is excellent for practicing touch and go's. It's a matter of taste. Some people love the 600 mph Bn'Z fighters. I get a kick out of blowing up a tank from 100m elevation. And you can turn like crazy in one. I can probably thank the AI, but I have brought down a few 109's and JU-87's in a Sturmovik. Just one man's opinion.

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/ap16.jpg

michapma
04-08-2004, 07:08 AM
Hi Vinokurov, welcome to IL-2!

I think that Zen and caucasian_stud (a stud is a piece of wood?) are jumping the gun a little bit in their advice. Since you are new to flight sims I would like to encourage you first to learn to fly, and then to work on combat. Of course you can fight from time to time for the fun of it. More on that in a sec, first my take on answering your questions:

1.
With time you will know exactly which controls you need fastest and most often. For flying, these will include view controls and probably elevator trim. For fighting, also view controls, weapons controls and possibly flaps. Dont' be afraid to reconfigure your assignments.

2.
You can practice takeoff and landing by going to the full mission builder (FMB). At this webpage (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/fmbguide/basicui.htm) you can read about some of the basics of manipulating objects in the mission builder. (It's not always intuitive.) There you will get access to lots of maps that aren't available to you in the quick mission builder (QMB). Basically all you need to do is open a map, go to the View menu, select Objects, and from the Objects dialogue select Aircraft under Objects and then select the kind of aircraft you want to fly. Zoom in on an airfield and place your aircraft near the aircraft by clicking on the map and hitting the Insert key (or Ctrl+left-click with the mouse). Then go to the Waypoint tab and select Takeoff instead of Normalfly. Save the mission in an appropriate folder (you can create your own folders before starting IL-2/FB) and exit the mission builder. Then from Single Missions find your folder and select your mission. Pretty complicated for a simple takeoff, but once you've made it and saved it you will always have it. Later you can learn how to make a dogfight map on a map where you can choose from any aircarft in the whole game.

3.
This is definitely due to the way the aircraft is trimmed. The aircraft are trimmed for a climbing attitude. Actually pilots have to adjust trim a lot in real aircraft, and it's pretty handy in IL-2 as well. To find out more about this and maybe some answers to other questions (plus some you've not thought of), have a look at this user's guide (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/download.htm).

4.
A good training aircraft is the Hurricane, except that it uses Imperial (British) units. The IL-2 is an excellent starter aircraft, as well as the LaGG-3 and Bf-109.


You have to learn to fly before you can learn to fight. A properly trained combat pilot feels the aircraft as an extension of himself. You don't have to get that good to start, since these aircraft cost nothing and your life's not at stake. But don't expect to have success if you don't know how to precisely control your aircraft. If I were you I'd start in an early-war aircraft such as the LaGG-3 or Bf-109E.

Once you know how to takeoff and land, perform some simple maneuvers, be aware of your altitude and airspeed, learn how to read instruments and maybe even fly in formation a little bit, it's definitely time for some gunnery practice. Start with friendly or unarmed enemy bombers.

There's plenty more, but that should get you going. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Cheers

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_chap.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)

The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/) | Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com/)
But we are all that way: when we know a thing we have only scorn for other people who don't happen to know it. - Mark Twain, Personal Recollections of Joan of Arc

michapma
04-08-2004, 07:13 AM
Oh I forgot--you should start with the flight physics turned on. If you find you are stalling way too much, then you'll be tempted to turn off stalls/spins, but this is a bad idea. Learn to fly the aircraft and make sure your input controls are well adjusted and you shouldn't have problems. You should definitely not get into any bad habits from the beginning, and besides the physics makes for interesting situations. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Feel free to adjust the view difficulty settings to your taste. It is important from the beginning that you develop a good 3D picture of what is going on around you. Later if you're up for the challenge you'll want to make the settings more difficult and "realistic" (a touchy term around here). But by then you'll have learned to paint that 3D picture in your head and won't need all the viewing aids.

Good luck pilot!

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_chap.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)

The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/) | Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com/)
But we are all that way: when we know a thing we have only scorn for other people who don't happen to know it. - Mark Twain, Personal Recollections of Joan of Arc

VW-IceFire
04-08-2004, 07:21 AM
Well as for method of learning to fly I jumped right into a QMB the first time I got the game and got my rear blown off and I went from there. I encourage you to just try flying around in the quick mission system, try some planes, get a feel for how things work, and then start in one on one or two on two engagements with comperable targets and then work your way up.

I also highly recommend you so some reading on air combat techniques online. Lots of sources can be found using Google.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

uberweng
04-08-2004, 10:00 AM
Welcome Vinokurov,
I wish you the best in your quest to conquer the skies. On the plane choice question I have two suggestions. The first is that starting with the IL2 is a good idea, as others have already said. Its an easy plane to fly and shooting stationary or slow moving targets is a good way to start learning shooting skills. I think flying a ground attack plane is a good way to get into the game as you will get to blow some stuff away pretty quickly. I found fighter missions a little frustrating at first because I could shoot anything down and ended up flying il2s for the first few weeks before trying fighters again.

The second is that if you do want to fly fighters a good way to learning shooting skills is to set up a quick mission battle with your fighter of choice and four or five friendly bombers. You can shoot them up and they wont shoot back. Its the best way to learn to shoot, esp as you can attack from any angle you want without being smoked by a gunner.

Good luck,
Uberweng

Vinokurov
04-08-2004, 07:54 PM
Hey this was aquick reply.
Thank you. I will kick the weel and start training.

Cheers

tsisqua
04-08-2004, 08:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vinokurov:
Hey this was aquick reply.
Thank you. I will kick the weel and start training.

Cheers<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Welcome to the forums. Nothing I can say to add to the good advice which you have already received.

Welcome To The Madness


Tsisqua

LeChuck___
04-09-2004, 04:07 AM
Hi everbody,

Long time reader, first time poster here. I've been waited so long to get a decend rig to just play IL2 FB, it seemed like eternety (I used to have a crappy laptop). Anyhow, last week I treated myself with a P4 3Ghz and a Radeon 9800Pro. So, the first thing I ordered was the FB and AEP offcourse. Still wating for the delivery guy. In the mean time, I downloaded IL2 demo and started practising on touch&go and my shooting skills. Touch&Go's are no problem (thanks to my Private Pilot License) but boy, do I suck at shooting http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Anyway, I know I have to practice A LOT, however I do have some questions for you folks

1) I never use wonderwoman view and try to get used to fight in "cokpit always" on. Is this a bad thing? Do I make things more difficult than it already is?

2) I have a Saitek Cyborg Evo Stick. No matter what I do, I can not assign the throttle. I keep using the 1-0 keys, which are frusturating when you are on the tail of your opponent. How do you assign it? The stick is properly calibrated by the way.

3) I use the Ju52 transport craft for my shooting practise. The darn thing can soak up quite some lead. Should I start with a smaller target?


Salute to all...

pinche_bolillo
04-09-2004, 06:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vinokurov:
Hey this was aquick reply.
Thank you. I will kick the weel and start training.

Cheers<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

if your planning on playing the game online, dont bother wasting your time playing it off line to gain experience because online and offline are completly different. down load the hyper lobby and jump into the game. the only thing I would suggest doing offline is mapping out your keys for various commands then have a go at it online. also if you do play online, dont listen to me because I just talk a lot of rubbish

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/230_1081512293_bolillo_loco.jpg

LeChuck___
04-09-2004, 11:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>2) I have a Saitek Cyborg Evo Stick. No matter what I do, I can not assign the throttle. I keep using the 1-0 keys, which are frusturating when you are on the tail of your opponent. How do you assign it? The stick is properly calibrated by the way.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess I have a rather unusal problem http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif Doesn't anybody know how to assign the throttle? Or am I the only one with the Evo stick http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Regards,