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surlybirch
02-19-2004, 05:44 PM
Why are these planes continually accepted by the general community? The YAK9s were supposed to be the signature Red airforce plane, but I don't see a lot of you peeps flyin those birds. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

No salutes for these planes. Get off the tricycles.


http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif


SURLY

http://surlybirch.tripod.com/mudbar.txt

SURLYbirch

surlybirch
02-19-2004, 05:44 PM
Why are these planes continually accepted by the general community? The YAK9s were supposed to be the signature Red airforce plane, but I don't see a lot of you peeps flyin those birds. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

No salutes for these planes. Get off the tricycles.


http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif


SURLY

http://surlybirch.tripod.com/mudbar.txt

SURLYbirch

Korolov
02-19-2004, 05:47 PM
A well flown Yak-9 can be just as good as a Yak-3. Don't fool yourself.

And La-5s are the same case. So in reality, how about you LW guys fly the signature 109G-6 series with the 20mm cannon, since thats what the LW used primarily. Get off your tricycle 109G-2s and 109K-4s. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

SeaFireLIV
02-19-2004, 05:53 PM
I remember a time once when I refused to fly any Yak, cos EVERYONE used to fly them. But hey, nothing like letting off a bit of steam, eh?

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/LAlowblue.jpg

frag_bravo
02-19-2004, 06:07 PM
I like all the yak variants.whats the beef?

VW-IceFire
02-19-2004, 06:10 PM
Perception is that the Yak 3 and the La 7 are overmodeled. If they are is an entirely different argument.

The one here is that nobody flys the Yak 9 despite the fact that it was the premier frontline fighter for the VVS during WWII. I do take the Yak-9U up for a spin now and again. The 9D is also a great ride...and perfectly effective...but you need to work a bit harder I suppose.

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The New IL2 Database is Coming Soon!

frag_bravo
02-19-2004, 06:14 PM
Quote Icefire:Perception is that the Yak 3 and the La 7 are overmodeled. If they are is an entirely different argument.

The one here is that nobody flys the Yak 9 despite the fact that it was the premier frontline fighter for the VVS during WWII. I do take the Yak-9U up for a spin now and again. The 9D is also a great ride...and perfectly effective...but you need to work a bit harder I suppose.

============Did you ever fly a yak or a la5? Im not accussing you,but there is a lot of people making statments that one plane is overmodled then the other.Lets say that the SPit was uber.Would you think that was over molded?

Huxley_S
02-19-2004, 06:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>And La-5s are the same case. So in reality, how about you LW guys fly the signature 109G-6 series with the 20mm cannon, since thats what the LW used primarily.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh good, for once I chose the "right" plane... do I get a badge or a free bacon sarnie!

Menthol_moose
02-19-2004, 06:21 PM
The LA7 climbs even faster these days from the hot air luftwhining .

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

http://simpsons.metropoliglobal.com/fotogramas/2f13/09.jpg

Eh, mates! What's the good word?

Chuck_Older
02-19-2004, 06:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by surlybirch:


No salutes for these planes. Get off the tricycles.





SURLY

http://surlybirch.tripod.com/mudbar.txt

_SURLYbirch_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>\

Tricycles? No salutes? Have ye gone daft, man? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

*****************************
from the Hundred Years war to the Crimea, from the lance and the musket and the Roman spear, to all of the men who have stood with no fear, in the service of the King~ Clash

Slammin_
02-19-2004, 06:28 PM
The nice thing about the Ki-84 is it is a nice equalizer. So what if the La-7 or Yak-3 actually are overmodelled? No prob. Just take up a Ki-84 and even the odds. You can do the same with a 109 too if you are good enough.

I don't really get all these arguements about what is and what is not modelled correctly. I do love the fact that for every FM in FB, there is a, or several counters available if you know how to use them, whether they be brains, or brawn.

This is why you will almost never see me in the same ride for any lenght of time. Sure I have my favorites (at least 5) but sometimes I am forced to grab something to oppose whatever I need to deal with at the moment, and the options are definitely there in FB.

Explore! You will be surprised at what you can learn by learning how to fly the different planes in FB.

EPP-Gibbs
02-19-2004, 06:30 PM
The Yak3 is said to be the most successful lightweight fighter of the war and one the best dogfighters produced. So good was it at low and medium alts that LW pilots were instructed 'not to engage Yaks without the chin cooler below (I can't remember wether it was) 3000, or 5000m'

The Yak without the chin cooler is the '3' It really was rather uber low down, so I would perhaps suggest that it isn't so much overmodelled as realistically modelled, or is it that the original aircraft 'overperformed'? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I am also led to believe that the later LA series, LA5FN, LA7 were also rather good as well, to put it mildly.

Both the Yak3 and LA series were optimised for lower alts, and their performance fell away past about 6k m. It may be that FB doesn't model this fall off properly, and so it could be argued that they are accurately modelled at low-med alts, but overmodelled at high alt.

If I had all the money I'd spent on drink..I'd spend it on drink!

SeaFireLIV
02-19-2004, 06:32 PM
Hey and what about the B239 Brewster. It`s an excellent turner for the Axis. I`ve flown it many times, it kicks butt low and climbs fast too, and it doesn`t suffer neg-G like the I16.

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/LAlowblue.jpg

Chuck_Older
02-19-2004, 06:35 PM
Thank you for not calling it a Buffalo, Seafire! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hey, have you read the story about the de-navalised B239s the Finns got? Every bit of US Navy equipment was removed before shipment, right down to the gunsights http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Nasty surprise

*****************************
from the Hundred Years war to the Crimea, from the lance and the musket and the Roman spear, to all of the men who have stood with no fear, in the service of the King~ Clash

Hunter82
02-19-2004, 06:42 PM
I do http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif and I use the 20's .....stinks after the G6/AS....no more 20's for me

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Korolov:
A well flown Yak-9 can be just as good as a Yak-3. Don't fool yourself.

And La-5s are the same case. So in reality, how about you LW guys fly the signature 109G-6 series with the 20mm cannon, since thats what the LW used primarily. Get off your tricycle 109G-2s and 109K-4s. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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ElAurens
02-19-2004, 07:05 PM
I will never understand this "My plane is hard to fly, therefore it is better!" mentality.

Do you also hit yourself in the head with a hammer because that is harder to do than sip a beer?

Bizzare....

_____________________________

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p1ngu666
02-19-2004, 07:06 PM
ive flown yak9u
if the base isnt safe, safest/best rid is hte yak3, guess ppl think it has too good climb and turn

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg

frag_bravo
02-19-2004, 07:17 PM
Like is not fair.SO of course Im going to hop into the best.Like the yakU or the Yak3.those shivaks are deadly.So call me a noob.In vietnam the grunts had a saying "what kinda bee dont fly,A Noob!"&lt;---- quote taken from my dad.Us Marine K-saunh 1969-70.

Petrosky
02-19-2004, 07:27 PM
yacity,yac. its the pilot not the plane

Slammin_
02-19-2004, 07:31 PM
It's the pilot with the plane he KNOWS how to fly.

LEXX_Luthor
02-19-2004, 07:58 PM
They fly Yak~3 for the same reason they take off with P~51 25% fuel.

I'd like to see a onwhine dogfight map big enough where everybody has to start with 100% fuel. But by the time P~51 arrive at the middle the Fb109s are columns of burning smoke on the FB landscape...although how they can burn with 0% fuel left I dunno.

__________________
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Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.
:
you will still have FB , you will lose nothing ~WUAF_Badsight
I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait... ~Bearcat99
Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age ~ElAurens

Zatorski
02-19-2004, 08:02 PM
Thanks for bringing this up, Birch
I have been really frustrated on-line where every enemy plane is a Yak3 or LA7, they pounce on you before you get any alt and smoke you. I feel like target practice, I fly as fast as I can, they come directly towards me, turn around behind me, in a flash they are on my six and there is no solution to shake them apart from them running out of ammo. I can't run. As far as Yaks go, the 9U is really really fast too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/upload/2/24/Mosquito.inflight.250pix.jpg

ucanfly
02-19-2004, 08:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Slammin_:
The nice thing about the Ki-84 is it is a nice equalizer. So what if the La-7 or Yak-3 actually are overmodelled? No prob. Just take up a Ki-84 and even the odds. You can do the same with a 109 too if you are good enough.

I don't really get all these arguements about what is and what is not modelled correctly. I do love the fact that for every FM in FB, there is a, or several counters available if you know how to use them, whether they be brains, or brawn.

This is why you will almost never see me in the same ride for any lenght of time. Sure I have my favorites (at least 5) but sometimes I am forced to grab something to oppose whatever I need to deal with at the moment, and the options are definitely there in FB.

Explore! You will be surprised at what you can learn by learning how to fly the different planes in FB.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree about flying all the different planes, but the LA7 really makes it too easy on you (almost arcade like), and it is easy to fall into bad habits which are quickly evident if you switch to a 190 or P51 after flying an LA7 for awhile. The energy bleed is just really miniscule in the LA7 and that is what is so hard to shake.

It's a shame really, but probably a a reflection of limited resources with a such a large planeset and FM engine limitations rather than any kind of intentional bias.

Slammin_
02-19-2004, 09:07 PM
"I'd like to see a onwhine dogfight map big enough where everybody has to start with 100% fuel."

I have no idea how long it takes to use up 100% fuel, and do not want to ever find out.

Don't get me wrong here. I remember the old days back when I first got into flight sims and spending 3-4 hours on just one single mission/outing, and enjoying that!

I am not there anymore. I guess to each his own.

BaldieJr
02-19-2004, 09:08 PM
Here is a thought...

Stop visiting servers that feature these planes.

If you don't like the late-war plane-sets, don't play 'em. Server admins follow the herd, and thats fact.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

VW-IceFire
02-19-2004, 09:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by frag_bravo:
Quote Icefire:Perception is that the Yak 3 and the La 7 are overmodeled. If they are is an entirely different argument.

The one here is that nobody flys the Yak 9 despite the fact that it was the premier frontline fighter for the VVS during WWII. I do take the Yak-9U up for a spin now and again. The 9D is also a great ride...and perfectly effective...but you need to work a bit harder I suppose.

============Did you ever fly a yak or a la5? Im not accussing you,but there is a lot of people making statments that one plane is overmodled then the other.Lets say that the SPit was uber.Would you think that was over molded?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think you misunderstand me...I said perception is that X and Y plane are overmodeled. I could be a little more specific but essentially I'm just saying that there are some elements that believe overmodeling of certain planes and not of others and I was just trying to suggest in a very considerate way that this isn't necessarily the argument here.

I also said "I do take the Yak-9U up for a spin now and again. The 9D is also a great ride...and perfectly effective...but you need to work a bit harder I suppose." They aren't as easy to fly as the Yak 3 is...which I have flown to some effect (and its not all easy either). My primary aircraft are the FW190D-9 and the P-51D but when I fly VVS its usually a Yak. The La's have a bad rep and I tend to want to buck the trends when I can http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. Even so...the La-5FN was very generous to me when I first started playing the game...modeled as it is...regardless of what people think. I'm actually not belonging to the "mass conspiracy against everyone by the Russians to overmodel their planes and undermodel others". I hope that Maddox games never proves me wrong. I've read stuff online...makes me think that the planes in question are pretty much fine with a few problems here and there. But you'll never find one that is perfect now will you http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Whatever...I fly them all from time to time! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig1.jpg
The New IL2 Database is Coming Soon!

Maj_Death
02-19-2004, 10:34 PM
The La's in general are extremely annoying due to their nearly non-existant energy bleed. I have zero respect for those who fly them on the regular basis. Yak-3's arn't so bad though. While having low energy bleed and steller agility, they do suffer in terms of both top speed and top cruise speed. The Yak-9U is one of the best fighters in FB IMHO, but none fly it cause it does require some degree of skill to fly. The Yak-9D is also fairly capable in 1943 servers.

BTW it takes about an hour and 30 minutes to burn up a full tank of gas in an Fw-190A under normal DF server flying. The La's last a little longer but not more than 20-30 minutes longer. P-anythings last atleast 2 hours, usually more. Bf-109's don't usually last more than an hour with full fuel. Range is an issue on some maps in FB. If you make the fight in the middle of the sea on the western half of the full size Leningrad map then 100% fuel is manditory for all German and Russian planes. P-51's and P-47's could probebly get away with 75% fuel.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The F7F Tigercat in Aces Over the Pacific is overmodeled.

GAU_8
02-19-2004, 11:06 PM
"technically" im a b-17 pilot for my squad...

but when im not on practicing with them i am 100 percent YAK 9K. (unless told otherwise)

i figured "stick to ONE plane, and LEARN IT.. no matter the changes in patches. since i started flying IL-2, the yak 9K has been my ride.

shes heavy, and slow,...but its the only fighter i know. ive tried em all, and the 9K fits me like a glove

http://imageshack.us/files/Tugs%20Siggy.jpg

Istreliteli
02-19-2004, 11:38 PM
WOW
How the F*** do you aim that NS45?!?!?

UShtravnikov odin zakon odin konetz kalir rubi, fashistkaya brayagu,
viy luchikh lest, rupi tyen na grabiy, pro rif idut, shtrafnye batalione
http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=Yak-3/v=2/l=IVI/*-http://www.nzfpm.co.nz/downloads/yak3-3.jpg

Mitlov47
02-19-2004, 11:47 PM
No kidding. The Yak-9K doesn't just vibrate when that 45mm goes off--it actually jerks around in the air. I think I've even seen the plane alter its course by several degrees for each cannon shell fired off. SCARY.

On the other hand, that thing does amazing damage if you can actually hit something with it. One shot kills, even on many heavy bombers.

robban75
02-20-2004, 06:20 AM
I think that when it comes to speed and climb the Yak-3 and Yak-9U very well represents the real thing, their dive and roll performance needs to be fixed though, especially the Yak-3's. The La-7 still climbs too good and its energy bleed needs some looking into to. On the LW side, the Bf 109G and K needs to be toned down aswell. I doubt if the real life K-4 could climb 28.6m/sec.

http://members.chello.se/unni/D-9.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

blabla0001
02-20-2004, 06:26 AM
Since most LW flyers take the Bf109G2 and K4 who are as well overmodelled I find it rather silly to make the Allied players to stop using the La7 or Yak3.

But since you guys don't feel to salute La7 or Yak3 flyers they should feel the same for the G2 and K4 flyers.

Issue resolved.

PS: I am a dedicated Hurricane and Future Spitfire driver so I don't care either way, just adding my .2 cents on this lame topic.

sambar
02-20-2004, 06:34 AM
I personally love YAK-3. And germans did not engage them unless they had significant advantage, I think it was posted and proved to be true before...
All whiners just need to learn how to fly their AC and not blame others...

sambar

carguy_
02-20-2004, 06:37 AM
I never visit late war servers cuz there are Yak3,9U but Me262 isn`t available.

http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg

SeaFireLIV
02-20-2004, 06:39 AM
The war between the VVS and LW flyer continues off the servers and on the forums.... sigh....

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/LAlowblue.jpg

BSS_Goat
02-20-2004, 06:59 AM
Hey how bout that Mustang!!! Lets start country bashing whoohoo!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

resev
02-20-2004, 07:21 AM
For the last three years, my main ride has been the P-39N1, but if for whatever reason i find myself getting owned because of the limiations of my ride on certain maps, you better damn well believe it i'm going to take up a Yak3 for leveling.
If you make the unfortunate mistake of ranting about it, then consider yourself my b!itch, because if i see you carrying a particularly identifiable skin, i will make my quest to hunt you down over and over again, until you learn how to keep your mouth shut, and actualy enjoy the game instead of ruining for others with complaints.

I have zero tolerance for the sort of idiots, who never even flown on an aircraft, much less piloted one themselfs, and then come and complain about this and that aircaft from 60 years ago, just because of what THEY think it should fly like, or because of an halfassed reading he did somewhere.


You want to talk about flight, aerodinamics, and overal behaviour???
Ask Tailspin, he flies a $h!tload of private aircrafts, testing them for a living, and if he has the oportunity, he'l fly a P-51 as regularly as oportunity is given.

Oh, thats right, you can't!!
He desn't post here all that often anymore, and i wonder why...................... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
Nowadays you have to go to the sty if you want to see him at all, as more than anyone, he is absolutely disgusted with the nimrodicy floating freely on this forum.
For the nimrods who have no idea who Tailspin is, let it be known to you that he was the one who first created and organized the IL-2 Air races.

You boys who complain too much truly live up to the term given by the old sticks, of nUBIs.


All you have is a bunch of biased theoretical data, and no hands on aproach experience to back it up.
Concepts as simple as the diference beetween maximum speed and combat speed are completely non existent to you.


You know what? I don't know why i even bothered typing all this and tiring my fingers, as it will fall into deaf ears, but since i did, i might as well post it.

F**k it.

http://mysite.freeserve.com/resev/images/2-picture2.gif?0.3524929147671928

KGr.HH-Sunburst
02-20-2004, 07:38 AM
i dont salute a la7 pilot but i dont mind them
flying it cus each his own but it takes no skill to fly them,a yak3 is harder to fly and not as good as a la7 when it comes to keepin energy and speed

i mostly fly 109-G14/6AS, P51/47 and have no problem beating yak3s
and equal pilots in a la7 vs k4 the k4 will lose anytime up to 6k
sometimes i take the la7 for a spin to remember
my n00bie days flying VVS planes
and i must say i make 4/5 kills in one run
without any problem.
but because i dont play this sim for the easy frags and i for one like a challenge to improve my skills i wont fly them.

http://www.warhawks.tk/
http://www.digital-d.nl/fotos/sunburstsig.jpg

Bogun
02-20-2004, 08:22 AM
I generally donā't like to fly LW planes, but I do when server is misbalanced toward the Red side.
So I do jump in Bf109 and thatā's when I get the most of the kills. Bringing 3 or 4 in one flight is not rear while flying 109. Try to do it on Yak-3ā... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Big cannon 109 is really plane for n00bs, and I donā't respect them especially when after the fight they come to this forum and to raise stink about opponents ā"Uberā" planesā...

It is especially laughable when one of those ā"LW experten wannabeeā" set his server to have best of LW side and stuff VVS side with worst performing planes only.
Then they can BnZ to death without ever having to think of actual tacticsā...

Bf109 is not the plane for n00bs only when it flies against worthy opponent.

To conclude:
There are no reason to salute n00bs flying big cannon Bf109... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Regards,

http://bogun.freeservers.com/609_bogun.jpg
"The best fighters I met in combat were the American P-51 Mustang and Russian Yak-9U. Both of those types obviously exceeded all Bf109 variants in performance, including the 'K'. The Mustang was unmatched in altitude performance, while the Yak-9U was champion in rate of climb and maneuverability."

- Walter Wolfrum (137 victories)

Maple_Tiger
02-20-2004, 08:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Slammin_:
It's the pilot with the plane he KNOWS how to fly.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

very true Slamin.

Think of this, it just came to me just now.

I have flown the La7, La5 when i first bought the gam, i think it was 1.0. Then i desided to try a new plane, the P-47. So now its 1.11 and im flying plane that does not turn or climb near as good as the La7. Man i have keep this short.

Ok, i mostly fly the P-47 and P-51 right. I also hop in the Fw190 to get the feel for it and sometimes a hop in a BF109 or KI-84.

Since the P-47 dosent even come close in Climb rate as the KI-84 and manuverabitly, i can hop in a KI-84 and litterly kick some serious *** most of the time. Wonder why that is?

Im just saying that the plane helps also. How many guys do you see in a P-47 lol. If you do see any they are usualy P-47 pilots who mostly just fly Jug, Like Baron, Korolov, ect. Ever see Baron in a KI-84? He dosent fly it much but when he does i get very nervouse why i see him in it lol.

1st Lut. 361stMapleTiger.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid78/pd6c878f0006c224805da6c9645408b41/fb291d3e.jpg

Cossack13
02-20-2004, 08:42 AM
Back when we used to play the board game "Air Force/Dauntless", I used to amaze people with my exploits in a Yak-3. Of course, all it really had going for it was good speed and good high-speed handling characteristics.

It had very mediocre guns as well.

Sigh, then it became the "Uber" plane and no one is amazed by anything you do in it.

Life just isn't fair.

http://www.tolwyn.com/~cossack/White13.gif
What ever you do, do
NOT buy an Alienware!

JG26Red
02-20-2004, 08:45 AM
Although the LA and Yaks where very good down low, they are still too good in game... there are just some things they do that just defeats logic and physics.. i.e.

this is one thing i always run into..

Iam going head to head with a yak, even or above him, at about 600 or more... this guys after we pass can simply turn up and around and be on my six in no time when iam still in the 500s.. now thats just crazy, if i did it i would be a mile behind and no chance to catch.. or even just diving at them at a high speed, you dive shoot(in my case miss) pull up and you obviously where a bit faster by diving on a level flying plane and they just turn up and chase ya easy.. its just nuts... but hey, it is made by russians, what do you expect...

BTW, iam a Anton pilot

Bogun
02-20-2004, 09:16 AM
I would expect you to:
1. Learn to accurately report what happened.
2. Better judge initial energy state of the enemy aircraft.
3. Learn to shoot not to miss.
4. Leave you "Russian Bias" BS at the door.

If you need help - I or many people on this forum will help you with tactics... or better - go on Greatergreen and just watch good Bf109 pilots dealing with their opponents...

Regards,

http://bogun.freeservers.com/609_bogun.jpg
"The best fighters I met in combat were the American P-51 Mustang and Russian Yak-9U. Both of those types obviously exceeded all Bf109 variants in performance, including the 'K'. The Mustang was unmatched in altitude performance, while the Yak-9U was champion in rate of climb and maneuverability."

- Walter Wolfrum (137 victories)

JG26Red
02-20-2004, 09:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bogun:
I would expect you to:
1. Learn to accurately report what happened.
2. Better judge initial energy state of the enemy aircraft.
3. Learn to shoot not to miss.
4. Leave you "Russian Bias" BS at the door.

If you need help - I or many people on this forum will help you with tactics... or better - go on Greatergreen and just watch good Bf109 pilots dealing with their opponents...

Regards,

http://bogun.freeservers.com/609_bogun.jpg
"The best fighters I met in combat were the American P-51 Mustang and Russian Yak-9U. Both of those types obviously exceeded all Bf109 variants in performance, including the 'K'. The Mustang was unmatched in altitude performance, while the Yak-9U was champion in rate of climb and maneuverability."

- Walter Wolfrum (137 victories)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

dude, iam not a great pilot, but i know when i see fishy stuff... and since this game is made by russians i dont find it hard to believe they made their planes better, even if it wasnt that was in RL... i mean look at the 190As, they are flying Pigs... geeez,,, russian BS? please...

Bogun
02-20-2004, 09:34 AM
You just ignored all that had been posted on this and other forums about comparative performance of the planes by the people who dedicated a lot of effort to research the meterā...
You just proved that your own Anti-Russian Bias will cloud or even prevent you to consider all the information available to all of us...
Instead of trying to learn – you found easy escape in accusing game developers in ā"Biasā".
You just forever attached the label of being perpetual n00b to your name JG26Redā...
How old are you kid?

Regards,

http://bogun.freeservers.com/609_bogun.jpg
"The best fighters I met in combat were the American P-51 Mustang and Russian Yak-9U. Both of those types obviously exceeded all Bf109 variants in performance, including the 'K'. The Mustang was unmatched in altitude performance, while the Yak-9U was champion in rate of climb and maneuverability."

- Walter Wolfrum (137 victories)

MandMs
02-20-2004, 09:41 AM
A Fw190A-8 (no drop tank, 640 L) had a flight time of 1,2 to 2.18 hrs depending on ata used and altitude flown. The distance flown was 615 to 1035km.

With a drop tank, 1.85 to 3.1hrs and flight distance of 915 to 1470km.

Endurance includes climb and decent times.



I eat the red ones last.

BaneTheEvilOne
02-20-2004, 09:44 AM
Noobs should continue to fly yak3 and la7, but only on servers with wonder woman view. It is not right to fly ufos on full real servers, cause lot of people play on them, aliens should stick to ufo servers.

JG26Red
02-20-2004, 09:55 AM
Iam 29 years old, and what is with this noob crap? its getting rather lame and old to call somebody a noob when you have nothing better to say... geez... anyways, i cant be a NOOB.. i dont fly ufos..

blabla0001
02-20-2004, 09:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG26Red:
i dont fly ufos..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So that means you don't fly the Bf109G2 and K4 either right?

Flamin_Squirrel
02-20-2004, 10:01 AM
Perhaps the russian planes arent over modeled.

However, since they were made of wood, and that build quality was hardly fantastic, its questionable if they were flown to their limits.

How often do you see russian planes wings snap off because they just pulled one of their amazing 9g turns?

Bogun
02-20-2004, 10:04 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
S! Cappadocian_317!

I bet that exactly what he is flying!

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Regards,

http://bogun.freeservers.com/609_bogun.jpg
"The best fighters I met in combat were the American P-51 Mustang and Russian Yak-9U. Both of those types obviously exceeded all Bf109 variants in performance, including the 'K'. The Mustang was unmatched in altitude performance, while the Yak-9U was champion in rate of climb and maneuverability."

- Walter Wolfrum (137 victories)

JG26Red
02-20-2004, 10:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cappadocian_317:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG26Red:
i dont fly ufos..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So that means you don't fly the Bf109G2 and K4 either right?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

nope, iam always in a Anton or Dora...

TheGozr
02-20-2004, 10:07 AM
The wings doesn't snap because your doing a 9 g's period.

-GOZR
http://www.french.themotorhead.com/themotorhead_fighters/images/pix/il2fbtmhlogosmall.jpg &lt;--Uncensored version IL2fb here (http://www.french.themotorhead.com/themotorhead_fighters/)

blabla0001
02-20-2004, 10:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG26Red:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cappadocian_317:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG26Red:
i dont fly ufos..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So that means you don't fly the Bf109G2 and K4 either right?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

nope, iam always in a Anton or Dora...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good for you, I am always flying in a Hurricane, even on late war servers.

And after the Ace Expansion I am going to park my trusty Hurricane in the hanger and exclusively fly the Spitfires regardeless of how they are modelled.

You can call me what you want after that, it won't matter to me one bit when I gun the little whiny whine boys down and don't salute back because they feel that they are a better person because they fly a LW plane since I am not the one that transformed into a smoking hole in the ground.

crazyivan1970
02-20-2004, 11:01 AM
I donno guys, i don`t find either of those two too shiny. I mean they are good planes, but there are many planes that just as good on LW side. Maybe full difficulty server equalize all planes after all http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

JG26Red
02-20-2004, 11:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cappadocian_317:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG26Red:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cappadocian_317:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG26Red:
i dont fly ufos..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So that means you don't fly the Bf109G2 and K4 either right?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

nope, iam always in a Anton or Dora...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good for you, I am always flying in a Hurricane, even on late war servers.

And after the Ace Expansion I am going to park my trusty Hurricane in the hanger and exclusively fly the Spitfires regardeless of how they are modelled.

You can call me what you want after that, it won't matter to me one bit when I gun the little whiny whine boys down and don't salute back because they feel that they are a better person because they fly a LW plane since I am not the one that transformed into a smoking hole in the ground.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ummmmm... ok, you have fun with that now ok..

blabla0001
02-20-2004, 11:10 AM
I already have fun with that Red since many whiny whine boys are already complaining that the Hurricane is too good as well.

And they are flying the G2 or K4 and still complain, lol.

crazyivan1970
02-20-2004, 11:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cappadocian_317:
I already have fun with that Red since many whiny whine boys are already complaining that the Hurricane is too good as well.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

carguy_
02-20-2004, 11:20 AM
Funny thing Yak3/La7 drivers always suggest that a LW pilot who knows his plane in and out will win with a Yak3/La7.
Although they don`t mention that the majority of FB players are at a similar level of flying abilities.

http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg

JG26Red
02-20-2004, 11:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cappadocian_317:
I already have fun with that Red since many whiny whine boys are already complaining that the Hurricane is too good as well.

And they are flying the G2 or K4 and still complain, lol.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

never had problems with a hurricane... i flew it once and it does turn VERY well, but thats probably due to its low speed and stuff... oh well, no reason to get all worked up dude.. wow

blabla0001
02-20-2004, 11:21 AM
True Ivan, they just simply suck but rather blame the other guy and his plane then their own skill.

blabla0001
02-20-2004, 11:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG26Red:
no reason to get all worked up dude.. wow<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LMAO, I am not getting worked up.

It seems that every time someone directs a post at you they are getting worked up, or so you think.

Nobody is getting worked up over you and your sad little bias cruisade.

It has been done before by others so we are used to it by now.

Bogun
02-20-2004, 11:53 AM
Right again Cappadocian.
It is mildly annoying for me to fly on Greatergreen server (which even one month ago meant – flying obsolete Allied planes vs. best Axis planes, always in numerical disadvantage) and then come here and see some LW flyer complainingā...
The other place Iā'm flying – Forgotten Skies online war – we are on the December 1942 Stalingrad map, flying same junk as in early Greatergreen missions (not even Yak-1b or Yak-7 available to VVS side) vs. good and dedicated LW pilots flying E-7, F-4 and G-2.
It is rough, but it was millions time rougher in the real life.
Iā'm suppose, we could have start complaining, right?
Or may it be better to start finally learning to play our violins?

By the way, there are few dedicated LW bomber pilots who are flying their He-111 and Ju-87 mission after mission. They really getting pounded hard, but the havoc they create is unbelievable.

People, who do their stuff right - deserve respect, even if they are on the other side.
Abnoxious and loud n00bs do not.

Regards,

http://bogun.freeservers.com/609_bogun.jpg
"The best fighters I met in combat were the American P-51 Mustang and Russian Yak-9U. Both of those types obviously exceeded all Bf109 variants in performance, including the 'K'. The Mustang was unmatched in altitude performance, while the Yak-9U was champion in rate of climb and maneuverability."

- Walter Wolfrum (137 victories)

Chadburn
02-20-2004, 12:10 PM
Another useless thread. What are VVS pilots supposed to fly in late-war servers if not the Yak3 and La7? They fly those because that's the historical plane set they get to select; not because they're noobs. And if you're in shoot-em-up, non-historical servers where you can choose whatever plane you want, then choose the plane you enjoy, fly it, and shut up about what others choose.

As for big-gun 109's. Well guess what? The G10, G14 and K4 only have 108 as default. So if it's a late 44-45 plane set, then that's what LW fliers use, even though they are designed to bring down bombers and not to dogfight in. Only the G6 43/44 offers a choice.

There's too many people in here these days whose only contibution to the forum is to criticize people's choice of planes, tactics, or servers. Tell ya what. When AEP comes out, one of you whiners buy it for me along with a new computer and pay for my dsl, and I promise I will only fly the planes you tell me to in the servers you want, with the tactics you proscribe.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~jkinley/FB_JG27.jpg

[This message was edited by Chadburn on Fri February 20 2004 at 11:25 AM.]

SeaFireLIV
02-20-2004, 12:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chadburn:
Another useless thread...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Great excuse for a pic showing our constant beickering though! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/wrestlearm.jpg
The Fights continue out of the Servers...

WUAF_Badsight
02-20-2004, 12:26 PM
hello


ok thats crap

i flew the VEF from the time we had Bf109 E4 to the time we had Bf109 G2

the VVS are THE planes to have if you want to RTB

it comes down to the fact (yes the F A C T) that the Bf109's in FB are W E A K

the LaGG & I-16 are so much more easy to get kills in & RTB

6 months on VEF showed me that much

SeaFireLIV
02-20-2004, 12:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
hello


ok thats crap

i flew the VEF from the time we had Bf109 E4 to the time we had Bf109 G2

the VVS are THE planes to have if you want to RTB

it comes down to the fact (yes the _F A C T_) that the Bf109's in FB are _W E A K_

the LaGG & I-16 are so much more easy to get kills in & RTB

6 months on VEF showed me that much<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dunno how you can say that, Badsight. Have you flown the I16 in VEF? I have several times and the first two times my I16 was blown up like a rotten egg! You`re totally wrong there, m8!

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/wrestlearm.jpg
The Fights continue out of the Servers...

blabla0001
02-20-2004, 12:36 PM
If you fly the Bf109G2 correctly you don't even get hit.

That thing can climb like a rocket and turn really well too.

That 20mm is so accurate you can hit a fly on the pilots face if you want to.

JG26Red
02-20-2004, 12:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cappadocian_317:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG26Red:
no reason to get all worked up dude.. wow<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LMAO, I am not getting worked up.

It seems that every time someone directs a post at you they are getting worked up, or so you think.

Nobody is getting worked up over you and your sad little bias cruisade.

It has been done before by others so we are used to it by now.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

get a life dude...

S77th-brooks
02-20-2004, 12:46 PM
dude he flys unlimited ammo and cant hit a thing in la7 with that gun sight http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

blabla0001
02-20-2004, 12:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG26Red:
get a life dude...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Repeating Polly in action again.

Is that all you can keep on saying or do you also have some new comments for a change?

blabla0001
02-20-2004, 12:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by S77th-brooks:
dude he flys unlimited ammo and cant hit a thing in la7 with that gun sight http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was wondering why you didn't pop in here yet to repeat yourself again.

JG26Red
02-20-2004, 12:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cappadocian_317:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG26Red:
get a life dude...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Repeating Polly in action again.

Is that all you can keep on saying or do you also have some new comments for a change?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

wow, how original

SeaFireLIV
02-20-2004, 12:59 PM
Ahem... did I say pointless bickering?

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/wrestlearm.jpg
The Fights continue out of the Servers...

blabla0001
02-20-2004, 12:59 PM
And you are original?

LMAO!

blabla0001
02-20-2004, 01:01 PM
Your just sitting here refreshing your browser to wait for my reply or something Red?

And I have to get a life?

LMAO_2

Sorry but you crack me up Red.

This is my final reply, then I am going to laugh at you some more in the shower and then I am going out to hit the bars with my woman.

Have a good one Red.

JG26Red
02-20-2004, 01:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cappadocian_317:
Your just sitting here refreshing your browser to wait for my reply or something Red?

And I have to get a life?

LMAO_2

Sorry but you crack me up Red.

This is my final reply, then I am going to laugh at you some more in the shower and then I am going out to hit the bars with my woman.

Have a good one Red.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

hmmmm ok, iam not sure what to think about you saying your laughing about me while your in the shower, but ummm okay... have fun...

BaldieJr
02-20-2004, 01:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Ahem... did I say pointless bickering?

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/wrestlearm.jpg
The Fights continue out of the Servers...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You should do another picture with two planes done up like babies, screaming and pulling on the same toy. That would rock.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

VW-IceFire
02-20-2004, 01:17 PM
I assume everyone has the 1.22 patch so I'm going to assume that at least a few people are a little nuts. The FW190 is not a pig or a slug or any manner of slow and unweildy things. My primary Luftwaffe ride (and thats probably 80% of the online time I spend nowadays) is the FW190. Preferably the A-5, the A-8, or the D-9. All of them are bloody deadly and I daresay that they are even agile if you treat them right.

I don't fly VEF so I don't have that experience but Co-ops and scripted dogfight servers like TX-0C3 show a different picture to me than being presented here.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig1.jpg
The New IL2 Database is Coming Soon!

MandMs
02-20-2004, 01:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG26Red:

hmmmm ok, iam not sure what to think about you saying your laughing about me while your in the shower, but ummm okay... have fun...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe he is going to use the shower drain instead of the porceline throne.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif



I eat the red ones last.

Cardinal25
02-20-2004, 01:32 PM
There is a good point in this thread.

If servers allow the best the VVS planes why are 262's banned?

-----------------------------
Asshat = Don't do it. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/index.php)

p1ngu666
02-20-2004, 01:44 PM
so this is all about dubious energy bleed?
and btw, i wouldnt say the 9u is uber, has very good climb, but limited ammo indeed, it cant take much damage either, doesnt turn that good either. probably similer to what a spit will be like i guess.
id say the energy bleed is a lil dodgy on yak3, but extend away or something.
and if your wondering what i fly, its everything, tho not ofteen a 109, cos i dont get on with it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg

BfHeFwMe
02-20-2004, 03:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG26Red:
Although the LA and Yaks where very good down low, they are still too good in game... there are just some things they do that just defeats logic and physics.. i.e.

this is one thing i always run into..

Iam going head to head with a yak, even or above him, at about 600 or more... this guys after we pass can simply turn up and around and be on my six in no time when iam still in the 500s.. now thats just crazy, if i did it i would be a mile behind and no chance to catch.. or even just diving at them at a high speed, you dive shoot(in my case miss) pull up and you obviously where a bit faster by diving on a level flying plane and they just turn up and chase ya easy.. its just nuts... but hey, it is made by russians, what do you expect...

BTW, iam a Anton pilot<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds like you don't understand energy tactics and what an instantanious turn can do for you. If you really expect a simple 180 degree high G turn to bleed high amounts of energy your not very good at the ACM game. Worst thing you can possibly do is blow straight through, you deserve to get shot.

Why don't you try turning counter 180 at half the rate, than he has to add 360 more to the 180 he just did in 1/2 of the time per 180 if he wants to catch you. Than see where his energy is. Heck, even a 90 degree turn out will force him to do 270, those last 90 will burn more energy than the first 180. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

JG26Red
02-20-2004, 03:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BfHeFwMe:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG26Red:
Although the LA and Yaks where very good down low, they are still too good in game... there are just some things they do that just defeats logic and physics.. i.e.

this is one thing i always run into..

Iam going head to head with a yak, even or above him, at about 600 or more... this guys after we pass can simply turn up and around and be on my six in no time when iam still in the 500s.. now thats just crazy, if i did it i would be a mile behind and no chance to catch.. or even just diving at them at a high speed, you dive shoot(in my case miss) pull up and you obviously where a bit faster by diving on a level flying plane and they just turn up and chase ya easy.. its just nuts... but hey, it is made by russians, what do you expect...

BTW, iam a Anton pilot<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds like you don't understand energy tactics and what an instantanious turn can do for you. If you really expect a simple 180 degree high G turn to bleed high amounts of energy your not very good at the ACM game. Worst thing you can possibly do is blow straight through, you deserve to get shot.

Why don't you try turning counter 180 at half the rate, than he has to add 360 more to the 180 he just did in 1/2 of the time per 180 if he wants to catch you. Than see where his energy is. Heck, even a 90 degree turn out will force him to do 270, those last 90 will burn more energy than the first 180. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

huh?

WUAF_Badsight
02-20-2004, 03:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:

I dunno how you can say that, Badsight. Have you flown the I16 in VEF? I have several times and the first two times my I16 was blown up like a rotten egg! You`re totally wrong there, m8! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

im not totally wrong at all

i have flowen for the VVS in the VEF as well , i know what im talking about

the VEF when it was Bf109 E series was a slaughter completely in plane performance

Axis planes were uber weak when the VVS planes were AWESOMLY strong

1) no overheat

2) insane DM at that time

now its gotten better with the v1.21 patch

I-16s at least get hurt now

G2 might climb but all Bf overheat WAAAAY Before VVS planes

getting the F4 at the patch change was a godsend for LW over the F2

before the F4 we had guns that didnt hit hard AT ALL

then we stepped up the the F4's 20mm & in addition the LW guns hit harder after the v1.21 patch

i wouldnt post if i didnt have any experience on this SeaFireLIV

WUAF_Badsight
02-20-2004, 04:00 PM
BfHeFwMe why dont you go try the LA-7 & post back here what your opinion is about the way it bleeds E

its HARD to make it slow down lol

p1ngu666
02-20-2004, 04:28 PM
lol, 190 was hard to slow down with engine off http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
on the 262 issue, prolly didnt see much service on ef, and it is abit uber tbh

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg

Franzen
02-20-2004, 10:31 PM
Well, as for flying 109's or La's it depends on my mood. If I don't want to work for a kill then I fly the La's. If I feel like a challenge I fly the 109's. Whether or not any of the planes are over or under modelled, I really don't care much. I just enjoy the game. Hat's off to Oleg and his crew. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Fritz

Slammin_
02-20-2004, 11:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BfHeFwMe:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG26Red:
Although the LA and Yaks where very good down low, they are still too good in game... there are just some things they do that just defeats logic and physics.. i.e.

this is one thing i always run into..

Iam going head to head with a yak, even or above him, at about 600 or more... this guys after we pass can simply turn up and around and be on my six in no time when iam still in the 500s.. now thats just crazy, if i did it i would be a mile behind and no chance to catch.. or even just diving at them at a high speed, you dive shoot(in my case miss) pull up and you obviously where a bit faster by diving on a level flying plane and they just turn up and chase ya easy.. its just nuts... but hey, it is made by russians, what do you expect...

BTW, iam a Anton pilot<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds like you don't understand energy tactics and what an instantanious turn can do for you. If you really expect a simple 180 degree high G turn to bleed high amounts of energy your not very good at the ACM game. Worst thing you can possibly do is blow straight through, you deserve to get shot.

Why don't you try turning counter 180 at half the rate, than he has to add 360 more to the 180 he just did in 1/2 of the time per 180 if he wants to catch you. Than see where his energy is. Heck, even a 90 degree turn out will force him to do 270, those last 90 will burn more energy than the first 180. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


This pretty much nails it dude. Every time I read where someone says they do a high speed head on and then figuring since they missed, they can extend w/o getting caught, I say to myself "what made him think it was going to be that easy against an La-7?". If I miss on a head on high speed pass against an La-7, the first thing I do is make an energy conserving turn, usually a dive turn, and when my SA is good, my turn will force him to do more than a 180.

At this point, I have two things in my favor now. Either the La will bleed speed, or he will black out, or be so close to blacked out, and still committed to his turn that I now have some new options :-).

Take the same situation but instead of an La, the enemy is flying a 109 like mine, I'd more than likely turn as hard and fast as I can to, the same as the La did me, but here I'm betting I'm better with my rudder and flaps than my opponent.

clint-ruin
02-20-2004, 11:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Slammin_:
If I miss on a head on high speed pass against an La-7, the first thing I do is make an energy conserving turn, usually a dive turn, and when my SA is good, my turn will force him to do more than a 180.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah! Finally some people start talking sense in this thread :&gt;

A good exercise for some of the whinier people in this thread would be for them to try and work out the changes in energy states from the following four options:

Trying to catch up with someone who has just flown past you 180degrees from your course, where is energy shuffled to in the following sets of moves?

a) pulling back on the stick, looping around 180degrees, roll to put your plane back upright
b) roll the plane inverted, pull back on the stick and loop around 180degrees
c) roll right, turn 180 degrees with the nose held 10 degrees below the horizon
d) roll left, turn 180 degrees with the nose held 10 degrees above the horizon

All of those listed put your plane in a different energy state at the end of the manouver - similar amounts of energy, but differing in choices of how much energy to burn and how much energy to store. And this is just a simple 'what if' that doesn't take very much account of throttle or rudder use during the course change too.

As you said, if we start making calculations on this with more variables, such as trying to catch a target that has also climbed or dived or turned or chopped throttle or floored it, we start to see just how much of air combat boils down to skillful use of the aircraft rather than just depending on an aircrafts performance to kill the enemy.

This is the long way of explaining what CrazyIvans sig quote does in just a few words :&gt;

http://home.iprimus.com.au/djgwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

SeaFireLIV
02-21-2004, 02:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:

i wouldnt post if i didnt have any experience on this SeaFireLIV<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I guess so, but you make it all sound very one-sided, which it isn`t. And I`ve been flying for about six months (actually longer, but they changed it, and I had to re-register). I find on VEF and VOW most German pilots fly with very real-life tactics and in VEF that means they stay high, attack with support, then run away. In the early war years which we always seem to be on, it`s extremely hard work for us in the I16 and only marginally better in the laggs.

The 1.21 patch made things significantly tougher for the I16. We find ourselves having to do defensive circles to watch our backs and guard for jerry and I`ve yet to successfully return to base intact (though I have crashed alive a few times). There was one point when I did return to base whole, but that`s because we encountered nothing.

From my side of things I often get the feeling that the Axis are laughing at us in the early war years (which seems realistic to me). We Sovs find it very hard to return to base....

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/wrestlearm.jpg
The Fights continue out of the Servers...

Tully__
02-21-2004, 03:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maj_Death:
The La's in general are extremely annoying due to their nearly non-existant energy bleed.....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Quick and dirty test:

Level flight at 4100m, chop throttle, maintain level flight, wait one minute and see how much speed drops.

My results, one pass each of La5FN and 109K-4

La5FN: 220km/h
109K-4: 230km/h

Hmmm..... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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Skalgrim
02-21-2004, 04:45 AM
think that not right for server without icon, with icon perhaps,

plane like yaks, i16 and mig are almost not to recognize over 600m,

so get you fast surprice from plane like yak1b or mig3u and then is not so easy to get never hits.

p39,la-5 and 109 have big dots and mig,yak very small dots

with icon, can you many plane fly and gets never hits, not only g2

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cappadocian_317:

If you fly the Bf109G2 correctly you don't even get hit.

[This message was edited by Skalgrim on Sat February 21 2004 at 04:19 AM.]

MandMs
02-21-2004, 04:55 AM
Tully what was you starting speed?



I eat the red ones last.

blabla0001
02-21-2004, 05:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Skalgrim:
think that not right for server without icon, with icon perhaps,

plane like yaks, i16 and mig are almost not to recognize over 600m,

so get you fast surprice from plane like yak1b or mig3u and then is not so easy to get never hits.

p39,la-5 and 109 have big dots and mig,yak very small dots

with icon, can you many plane fly and gets never hits, not only g2.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I never fly with icons, a good resolution and FSAA/AF also helps spot and ID planes easier as well.

I see both the smaller and the bigger dots just fine here.

Usually I am the first one in our Squadron to spot the enemy planes.

You can also ID "dots" that are in combat by the color of the tracer fire when your up high so you know what "dot" to attack.

Skalgrim
02-21-2004, 05:51 AM
with FSAA/AF ,

ok that help perhaps, but i must wait, have only geforce2, will next buy better grafic card


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cappadocian_317:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Skalgrim:
think that not right for server without icon, with icon perhaps,

plane like yaks, i16 and mig are almost not to recognize over 600m,

so get you fast surprice from plane like yak1b or mig3u and then is not so easy to get never hits.

p39,la-5 and 109 have big dots and mig,yak very small dots

with icon, can you many plane fly and gets never hits, not only g2.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I never fly with icons, a good resolution and FSAA/AF also helps spot and ID planes easier as well.

I see both the smaller and the bigger dots just fine here.

Usually I am the first one in our Squadron to spot the enemy planes.

You can also ID "dots" that are in combat by the color of the tracer fire when your up high so you know what "dot" to attack.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

blabla0001
02-21-2004, 06:00 AM
One of my Squad buddies just replaced his Radeon 8500LE for a 9700 Pro.

He is my Wingman and when I call out enemy planes at whatever o'clock over the radio he spots them as well now, back in his 8500LE days he didn't see them until we got closer.

IV_JG51_Prien
02-21-2004, 06:39 AM
I sometimes get frustrated when I fight LA7's or Yaks. But I know a lot of the difficulty is not in the fact that the planes are overmodelled per se, but more due to my own pilot error.

Sometimes when I get ripped from the sky by one I initally get irritated at the plane but then realize "Nah, what was I thinking trying to turn with that thing in a G6 anyway?", then chock it up to experience and hit "refly" and go again.

But on the same token I think that VVS guys whining about "Big gun 109's" is just as lame as LW's griping about the LA's and Yaks.

JV44_Wubke
02-21-2004, 07:02 AM
I don't think it is the FM of the Yak and La that is over modelled. Its the pilots ability to continualy perform the high G fight with no physical effect that is more to blame. In WWII Soviet pilots were under STRICT orders NOT to engage in a turning fight even though they new they had the better turning aircraft.
The other problem is the scenarios. How often do you find yourself above 5000m in a DF server?
This plays right into the hands of the Yak drive
S!

Shot2Pieces
02-21-2004, 07:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cappadocian_317:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Skalgrim:
think that not right for server without icon, with icon perhaps,

plane like yaks, i16 and mig are almost not to recognize over 600m,

so get you fast surprice from plane like yak1b or mig3u and then is not so easy to get never hits.

p39,la-5 and 109 have big dots and mig,yak very small dots

with icon, can you many plane fly and gets never hits, not only g2.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I never fly with icons, a good resolution and FSAA/AF also helps spot and ID planes easier as well.

I see both the smaller and the bigger dots just fine here.

Usually I am the first one in our Squadron to spot the enemy planes.

You can also ID "dots" that are in combat by the color of the tracer fire when your up high so you know what "dot" to attack.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its not really so much the dots that are the problem, since they often have a reasonable contrast even against the ground, its the mid-range LOD's that tend to disappear more.

blabla0001
02-21-2004, 08:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shot2Pieces:
Its not really so much the dots that are the problem, since they often have a reasonable contrast even against the ground, its the mid-range LOD's that tend to disappear more.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No problem for me either, I hardly ever loose track of an enemy plane during combat.

The only times I loose them is due their own evading skills, clouds or my own error.

Tully__
02-21-2004, 08:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MandMs:
Tully what was you starting speed?



I eat the red ones last.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

410km/h

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Salut
Tully