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ACIIIConnor
02-01-2015, 02:42 AM
Just finished Assassin's Creed Rouge and things dont add up. In assassin's creed 3, Haytham just got accepted into the Templars, and Connor was born later into that game, Aquillies is old in that game, Adawale is young in Black Flag, and Edward is Haytham's father. In Assassin's creed Unity, the man who killed Arno's dad is Germain. Now, In assassin's creed Rouge, Adawale is Older, Following Black Flag. Haytham is the Grand Master in Rouge, Yet this is before AC 3 which doesnt add up. The proof is that Aquillies is Young in Rouge but in AC 3 he isnt, and once again, Haytham is grand master in Rouge but not in Ac 3. Moving on to the Arno part, At the end of Rouge, Shay kills Arno's dad and you see Young Arno talking to Young Elise, But according to Unity lore, Germain killed Arno's Dad. This **** isnt making sense.

Alphacos007
02-01-2015, 02:49 AM
Rogue is not before AC3, it's during it. In AC3 you played with Haytham, then you switched to Connor, but that character switch jumped many years in the story. Rogue is in those jumped years. Haytham is already in America, but Connor wasn't born yet.

aL_____eX
02-01-2015, 02:55 AM
http://i.imgur.com/mcxkMDD.png

ACIIIConnor
02-01-2015, 03:02 AM
But the Arno thing does not add up. Shay killed Charles Dorian, but in ACU, Germain killed Dorian

Alphacos007
02-01-2015, 03:07 AM
You don't see who killed Charles in the game, and I just checked and there is no Charles Dorian database entry, you probably missread something.

ACIIIConnor
02-01-2015, 05:19 AM
You kill Arno's father after the Credit's of Rouge

Altair1789
02-01-2015, 05:42 AM
Germain was never said to have killed Arno's dad. He conspired to kill Francois de la Serre (Elise's dad, Arno's stepdad)

DemonLord4lf
02-01-2015, 05:45 AM
Germain was never said to kill Arno's dad. He conspired to kill Francois de la Serre (Elise's dad, Arno's stepdad)

The way he acts, its not surprising someone mistook him for being Arno's father. His real father is killed and he doesn't even seem to care. Real let down there...

Altair1789
02-01-2015, 05:57 AM
The way he acts, its not surprising someone mistook him for being Arno's father. His real father is killed and he doesn't even seem to care. Real let down there...

http://i.imgur.com/lSkOTVE.png

"I died and my son barely even cared"

Fatal-Feit
02-01-2015, 07:54 AM
In assassin's creed 3, Haytham just got accepted into the Templars, and Connor was born later into that game, Aquillies is old in that game, Adawale is young in Black Flag, and Edward is Haytham's father. In Assassin's creed Unity, the man who killed Arno's dad is Germain. Now, In assassin's creed Rouge, Adawale is Older, Following Black Flag. Haytham is the Grand Master in Rouge, Yet this is before AC 3 which doesnt add up. The proof is that Aquillies is Young in Rouge but in AC 3 he isnt, and once again, Haytham is grand master in Rouge but not in Ac 3. Moving on to the Arno part, At the end of Rouge, Shay kills Arno's dad and you see Young Arno talking to Young Elise, But according to Unity lore, Germain killed Arno's Dad. This **** isnt making sense.

* Shay was responsible for the death of Charles Dorian and Germain was responsible for the death of De La Serre. I don't know where you got your Unity lore info from, but it's incorrect.

* Achilles was 50 years old when Haytham crippled him. He looks young because he's a fit Assassin who wasn't crippled. In the world of AC, Assassins age the best. Look at Ezio in Revelations. Fast forward 6 years, when Connor first meet Achilles, it's enough time for the depression to do its job.

* Haytham is a Grand Master in AC3. He never wasn't.


His real father is killed and he doesn't even seem to care. Real let down there...

Haha, sure. That's why he's so attached to the broken watch, especially the panics at its disappearances. Arno's just a little loco.

DemonLord4lf
02-01-2015, 08:07 AM
Haha, sure. That's why he's so attached to the broken watch, especially the panics at its disappearances. Arno's just a little loco.


And thats it. He doesn't look into his father's murder. That watch could've been hashed out more. Maybe he's looking at it when someone mentions Shay or Shay see's the watch and says something about it.

Farlander1991
02-01-2015, 08:18 AM
And how the hell is Arno supposed to look into his father's murder? He was 8 years old when it happened, a scared and confused child. It doesn't help that even the French Templars wouldn't know that Shay was in Versailles. The trail would go cold almost instantly, especially by the time Arno would grow up enough to do something about it.

DemonLord4lf
02-01-2015, 08:23 AM
True, but he never seems to even think about it. You would think he would use the Brotherhood to help him find out or perhaps use his contacts in the new government to help him. Why would he carry that watch around but yet never seem to really find out who killed his father. If i was him, i would want to find out who killed my father so i could avenge him.

Fatal-Feit
02-01-2015, 08:41 AM
And thats it. He doesn't look into his father's murder. That watch could've been hashed out more. Maybe he's looking at it when someone mentions Shay or Shay see's the watch and says something about it.

I was being sarcastic, but anyway, Arno doesn't need to look into his father's murder. He's not an avenger (nor is it another revenge story like AC2), he moved on from that. It's present during the Assassin trial. He put down the past to seek a better future. Treading upon old wounds and finding the murderer for his father would do no good (especially something so long ago). Redeeming himself by keeping the last person he love alive (Elise) on the other hand would. It's like what happened when Connor found out that Washington was responsible for the burning of his village. He doesn't avenge his mother because he neglects and doesn't care about her, no, he's aware that it would do no good at that point. Protecting those still alive are his main concern. The past is the past.

Anyway, the watch was present about 4-5 times in the game. He hasn't forgotten or neglected his father. He stares at it when he's depressed and it comforts him like his father once did (insertjoke.jpg). Whenever it's gone, he becomes desperate. It's clear he still loves his father.

Having some hash out with Shay because revenge is not necessary. And talk about...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JGp7Meg42U

Farlander1991
02-01-2015, 08:45 AM
True, but he never seems to even think about it.

He thinks about it all the time, that's why he's got the watch with him in the first place. In the initiation level, you can see in Arno's mind that there's a shadowy figure killing his father, and later we find out that shadowy figure is Arno himself. As far as Arno sees it, he's the one who killed his father, he's the one responsible for him to be waiting in a vulnerable position allowing to be murdered. In Arno's eyes, both in his father's and Elise's fathers death, somebody else used the blade, but it's Arno himself who's responsible.


You would think he would use the Brotherhood to help him find out or perhaps use his contacts in the new government to help him.

Murders with barely info or clues with 13 years passing after them are incredibly hard to solve even now, let alone back in the 18th century.


Why would he carry that watch around but yet never seem to really find out who killed his father.

And what that would solve for Arno exactly? So he would find his father's killer, his father would still be dead, and Arno would still consider himself responsible. From a character arc plot, what would that lead to?

Arno's motivation in the main plot is not avenging Elise's father death, it's making sure he doesn't become the shadowy figure that kills Elise as well.


If i was him, i would want to find out who killed my father so i could avenge him.

Unless you had your father killed when you were 8, you can't say that for sure :p

DemonLord4lf
02-01-2015, 08:45 AM
I was being sarcastic, but anyway, Arno doesn't need to look into his father's murder. He's not an avenger (nor is it another revenge story like AC2), he moved on from that. It's present during the Assassin trial. He put down the past to seek a better future. Treading upon old wounds and finding the murderer for his father would do no good (especially something so long ago). Redeeming himself by keeping the last person he love alive (Elise) on the other hand would. It's like what happened when Connor found out that Washington was responsible for the burning of his village. He doesn't avenge his mother because he neglects or doesn't care about her, no, he's aware that it would do no good at that point. Protecting those still alive are his main concern. The past is the past.

Anyway, the watch was present about 4-5 times in the game. He hasn't forgotten or neglected his father. He stares at it when he's depressed and it comforts him like his father once did (insertjoke.jpg). Whenever it's gone, he becomes desperate. It's clear he still loves his father.

Having some hash out with Shay because revenge is not necessary. And talk about...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JGp7Meg42U

They could've done something along that line. Also, at the end of Rouge

Shay says he's going to start another revolution. So why don't we hear anything about him during ACU?

Farlander1991
02-01-2015, 09:18 AM
Random though. Sometimes I wonder if people would be as interested in Arno finding his dad's murderer if Shay wasn't involved. :rolleyes:

DemonLord4lf
02-01-2015, 09:28 AM
Random though. Sometimes I wonder if people would be as interested in Arno finding his dad's murderer if Shay wasn't involved. :rolleyes:

Just stop arguing with the chaos!!! Of course its random though. I said it :D

Im just saying they had a golden opportunity there to link the two games together, but they failed miserably at it...

GunnerGalactico
02-01-2015, 09:55 AM
I was being sarcastic, but anyway, Arno doesn't need to look into his father's murder. He's not an avenger (nor is it another revenge story like AC2), he moved on from that. It's present during the Assassin trial. He put down the past to seek a better future. Treading upon old wounds and finding the murderer for his father would do no good (especially something so long ago). Redeeming himself by keeping the last person he love alive (Elise) on the other hand would. It's like what happened when Connor found out that Washington was responsible for the burning of his village. He doesn't avenge his mother because he neglects and doesn't care about her, no, he's aware that it would do no good at that point. Protecting those still alive are his main concern. The past is the past.

Anyway, the watch was present about 4-5 times in the game. He hasn't forgotten or neglected his father. He stares at it when he's depressed and it comforts him like his father once did (insertjoke.jpg). Whenever it's gone, he becomes desperate. It's clear he still loves his father.

Damn true! Not every story or person's motive has to be about avenging somebody's death. Not everyone comes out successful in that endeavour.
In reality, years would pass by people would never know the truth and some people don't obsess over revenge. I agree with Farlander, it would've been too late for Arno to solve the mystery of his father's murder and the trail was cold long before he could become an adult.

Namikaze_17
02-01-2015, 11:16 AM
Especially with Shay of all people...

Even the MD Templars didn't know who he was.

How was Arno supposed to? :rolleyes:

DemonLord4lf
02-01-2015, 10:12 PM
Especially with Shay of all people...

Even the MD Templars didn't know who he was.

How was Arno supposed to? :rolleyes:

Because Arno was the Assassin version of Batman :D

Namikaze_17
02-01-2015, 11:08 PM
Because Arno was the Assassin version of Batman :D


I doubt he had his memory playback power at eight years old. :rolleyes:

All he remembers is a shadowy figure which the others have explained is himself.

Besides, Shay killing Dorian was strictly business that had nothing to do with Arno.

It wasn't personal like the Borgias to Ezio.

DemonLord4lf
02-01-2015, 11:09 PM
I doubt he had his memory playback power at eight years old. :rolleyes:

All he remembers is a shadowy figure which the others have explained is himself.

Besides, Shay killing Dorian was strictly business that had nothing to do with Arno.

It wasn't personal like the Borgias to Ezio.

Seems like everything Arno did until DK was personal... >.>

Namikaze_17
02-01-2015, 11:17 PM
Seems like everything Arno did until DK was personal... >.>

Personal, how?

He was seeking redemption for what happened to his adoptive father and biological father whose deaths he saw were his fault.

Not to mention, he was seeking to protect Elise in the process.

Where does personal or revenge factor into that?

DemonLord4lf
02-01-2015, 11:21 PM
Personal, how?

He was seeking redemption for what happened to his adoptive father and biological father whose deaths he saw were his fault.

Not to mention, he was seeking to protect Elise in the process.

Where does personal or revenge factor into that?

Everything he did was so that he could be with her. He didn't care about what was going on with France or its people, he was just using everyone, the Brotherhood included to kill the ones responsible for the death of Elise's father.

Namikaze_17
02-01-2015, 11:38 PM
Everything he did was so that he could be with her. He didn't care about what was going on with France or its people

That was the point.

It was about someone who lost the most important people in his life and couldn't bare to lose the final one.

It wasn't about the Revolution, the people, the Assassins, or Templars to Arno...just her.

All the others were just sub-plots or backdrops. Plain and simple.




he was just using everyone, the Brotherhood included to kill the ones responsible for the death of Elise's father.

Alta´r used the Creed as an excuse to do as he wanted in AC1.

Ezio used the Assassins to get his revenge not once, but twice.

Connor used the Assassins and their ways to save his people.

Edward, like Alta´r, used the Creed as a means to do as he wanted.


Like those individuals, Arno used them for his personal gain. And like them, he also realized the bigger picture.

His speech in the end clearly shows this. :rolleyes:

Farlander1991
02-01-2015, 11:39 PM
Is 'personal' a problem now? :p Pretty much everything Ezio did in AC2 until almost the very end of the game was personal. He didn't really care about the common folk or anything, just that the people who killed his parents have to die. Heck, those people just happened to be Templars, if they weren't, Ezio would be acting the same. Brotherhood isn't any more highly valued by him, and it's even a point in one of the conversations how Ezio just doesn't notice that his actions change lives of other people for the better. For a very long time, he didn't really care, but this doesn't seem like a problem to people. So why is it a problem with Arno?

EDIT: And while we're at it, at the end of AC2, Ezio didn't put the needs of the Brotherhood first and spared the Templar Grandmaster. He put his personal values above. It bit in the *** later on of course, but the point is, even at the end of AC2 Ezio wasn't fully committed to the Brotherhood. One could argue that he never was, because Ezio deep down wanted to come back to a simple normal life, something he finally got after he retired.

Fatal-Feit
02-01-2015, 11:47 PM
@Farlander - Don't forget the ending. Even after being promoted to an Assassin, he disobeyed the order the very next contract by letting Rodrigo live because it was still personal. Forget the Brotherhood, the Creed, and the people who helped him throughout his entire adventure, it was about himself overcoming revenge. And he wasn't even booted from the Brotherhood when they Borgias came knocking back.

It's when personal vendettas become inconsistent and break development that it's a problem.

wvstolzing
02-02-2015, 01:31 AM
What still bugs me about Charles's death is that

his role as the custodian of 'the box' never gets brought up ever again. The Assassins entrusted *him* with the box; Shay somehow found out that he'd be getting the box, down to the exact minute. He must have been someone significant, in some way.

That Arno never finds out about that significance, or never does any research into it, is a bit odd.

Bellec obviously gets excited when he finds out that Arno is Charles's son. Regardless whether the Assassins knew about Shay (they probably didn't), they certainly knew that he was the guy who got murdered right after receiving an important artifact. You'd expect them to mention *that*, at least, to Arno.

Namikaze_17
02-02-2015, 01:41 AM
What still bugs me about Charles's death is that

his role as the custodian of 'the box' never gets brought up ever again. The Assassins entrusted *him* with the box; Shay somehow found out that he'd be getting the box, down to the exact minute. He must have been someone significant, in some way.

That Arno never finds out about that significance, or never does any research into it, is a bit odd.

Bellec obviously gets excited when he finds out that Arno is Charles's son. Regardless whether the Assassins knew about Shay (they probably didn't), they certainly knew that he was the guy who got murdered right after receiving an important artifact. You'd expect them to mention *that*, at least, to Arno.


Inconsistent writing at its best.

But I agree...Charles did seem to be important in some way.

And him dying was alright, it's just him being disregarded like that kinda bothered me.

Especially when Pierre perhaps knew Charles and told Arno nothing about it.

DemonLord4lf
02-02-2015, 01:42 AM
Inconsistent writing at its best.

[B]And him dying was alright[/U], it just him being disregarded like that kinda bothered me.

You sir, are a monster :p

Namikaze_17
02-02-2015, 01:43 AM
You sir, are a monster :p


Um, how? :p

DemonLord4lf
02-02-2015, 01:45 AM
Um, how? :p

You said you it was alright that Arno's dad was killed. Therefor you are a monster :p

VoldR
02-02-2015, 01:49 AM
Please correct me if wrong...

From what I understand without playing the game yet.
Rogue started out before even Aveline's time but few if not many years after Blackflag:Freedom cry.

Met Franklin 1754?
That's the year haythem was watching the opera...

1755 Earthquake happened and Connor was conceived...

Join Templars 1756... That's 2 years after haythem's trip to the theater in AC3

1760 Connor's home burn

Around 1763 was said where Achilles failed not sure if that's the arctic event or slightly after...

1765 AC: Liberation starts

1769 Connor meets Achilles

1776 in France Unity

Namikaze_17
02-02-2015, 01:49 AM
You said you it was alright that Arno's dad was killed. Therefor you are a monster :p

I meant I was okay with his death even though Shay killing him just as he got the box was ridiculous. :rolleyes:

Zaofu doesn't allow monsters. :p

DemonLord4lf
02-02-2015, 01:50 AM
I meant I was okay with his death even though Shay killing him just as he got the box was ridiculous. :rolleyes:

I know what you meant, just wanted to say that once in my lifetime ^_^

DemonLord4lf
02-02-2015, 01:51 AM
Please correct me if wrong...

From what I understand without playing the game yet.
Rogue started out before even Aveline's time but few if not many years after Blackflag:Freedom cry.

Met Franklin 1754?
That's the year haythem was watching the opera...

1755 Earthquake happened

Join Templars 1756... That's 2 years after haythem's trip to the theater in AC3

1760 Connor's home burn

Around 1763 was said where Achilles failed not sure if that's the arctic event or slightly after...

1765 AC: Liberation starts

1769 Connor meets Achilles

1776 in France Unity

Sounds about right.

Namikaze_17
02-02-2015, 01:53 AM
I know what you meant, just wanted to say that once in my lifetime ^_^

Ah...okay?

VoldR
02-02-2015, 03:08 AM
Sounds about right.

Aww, u quoted before I add Connor conceived...

Same year as the earthquake.
That Haythem must be feeling the force nearby....