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Mr_Bumfuzzle
01-27-2015, 02:36 PM
It's a well know fact everyone hates playing against mill and stall decks etc, so my idea is make a game mode where these decks are banned.

Everyone loves fighting vs Might and Magic is the traditional way, and eveyrone hates these crazy game game mechanics that are kinda novel sort of, but they are also really boring and just luck based to play against.

We shall call this new game mode, "fun times mode", and the old mode that would be full of these decks fighting each other shall be called, the "special person deck mode".

Yogim4n
01-27-2015, 02:47 PM
Well you cannot segment out a part of playerbase just because you hate playing versus stall or controll decks. This would divide an already small playerbase. What you can do is actually run some counters to their strategy like instant target removal such as soul reavers or bounces like town poral and broken bridge. to get rid of their stall cards.

Mr_Bumfuzzle
01-27-2015, 03:31 PM
Your idea is also good but mine is better, when we have the fun times mode our player base will grow and both the fun times mode and the special person deck modes will get more players.

Xev5
01-27-2015, 03:44 PM
How is playing against aggressive rushes superior to playing against stall decks? Either way you lose. And now, since rewards scale purely off game time, you are not even get rewarded for making a short order of your opponent.

How is playing against midranges any better, though? When you lose to your opponent's strategy it is one thing, but losing to a deck where each card is simply more overpowered than each of your cards? That's ludicrous (and MTG does this too). Where is the enjoyment in that as compared to losing to a focused and smartly built deck?

Mr_Bumfuzzle
01-27-2015, 03:54 PM
How is playing against aggressive rushes superior to playing against stall decks? Either way you lose. And now, since rewards scale purely off game time, you are not even get rewarded for making a short order of your opponent.

How is playing against midranges any better, though? When you lose to your opponent's strategy it is one thing, but losing to a deck where each card is simply more overpowered than each of your cards? That's ludicrous (and MTG does this too). Where is the enjoyment in that as compared to losing to a focused and smartly built deck?

This is how special person deck mode will work with smartly built special decks fighting each other.

Fun times mode is also there as a fun times option, but special person deck mode is there too for special times.

Licker34
01-27-2015, 05:18 PM
Worst idea ever.

Infernal_Wisdom
01-27-2015, 05:38 PM
It's a well know fact everyone hates reading threads against mill and stall decks etc, so my idea is make a forum mode where these threads are banned.

Everyone loves playing vs. Stall, Mill and Massrage decks is the traditional way, and eveyrone hates these crazy creatures are attacking creatures only game mechanics that are kinda novel sort of, they are also really boring and just luck based.

We shall call this new game mode, "fun times mode", and the old mode that would be full of these decks fighting each other shall be called, the "special person deck mode".

It is so true I support it %100!!!! Oh wait... xD

Where is gustav to bash me :P muahaha xD

Heroesfan123
01-27-2015, 07:15 PM
It's a well know fact everyone hates playing against mill and stall decks etc, so my idea is make a game mode where these decks are banned.

Everyone loves fighting vs Might and Magic is the traditional way, and eveyrone hates these crazy game game mechanics that are kinda novel sort of, but they are also really boring and just luck based to play against.

We shall call this new game mode, "fun times mode", and the old mode that would be full of these decks fighting each other shall be called, the "special person deck mode".

Ickle wee Bumfuzzle is so butthurt lol :) L2P noob

Havenworld
01-27-2015, 07:26 PM
I agree with the original post 100%.
"Anti-fun" cards and decks are making the game boring.
Many players don't want to spend 15-20minutes bored and frustrated.

Again, I agree with the "Best Idea Ever" 100%! It is indeed the best idea for the game.

Lorenthiel
01-27-2015, 07:41 PM
Yes, also we can make one hundred nonsense fun times modes, and spread players into them. Beacuse we have so many players left :D

Nillicomes
01-28-2015, 08:33 AM
when we have the fun times mode our player base will grow and both the fun times mode and the special person deck modes will get more players.

I Wonder how you can state this?
I believe that players play those stall decks to counter creature decks. I don't think they do it to face other stall decks... So I can't see how splitting them up will make the playerbase grow?
At the same time I am pretty sure that it is not because of stall decks that the playerbase has dropped.

2 years ago stall decks was just insanely OP due to the lack of counters. Right now there's so many counter to them and in the current direct damage meta they get countered a lot. So personally I can't see a problem atm though I used to be a stall hater. In current meta now I see that it is important with different archetypes. Currently inferno can be compared with stall was before!

Pjovejas
01-28-2015, 10:18 AM
/irony tag
Yeah, hooray, totaly agree. I hate super rush Inferno decks + that booorrring Kal Azaar control. So ban them too!

/irony tag off

See the problem? I, as a player, also have my personal opinions. And you make typical logical mistake: "i don't like smth+ my friends don't like it = nobody likes it, we have to ban that, because it is best for all". :)

zolosatiy
01-28-2015, 11:45 AM
While we are at it, we should ban all aoe mass removal spells. It is not fun to lay down 4 creatures to be wiped out by arkath's wrath!
And come to think of it, we should ban removal spells like soulreaver. No one likes to have their buffed unique instakilled.
Then we should remove events because they are sneaky. And stronghold cause i hate it!

Jarema03
01-28-2015, 06:42 PM
we should also remove all creatures immune to my fortunes - they are breaking my immersion and my gameplay style :)

Mr_Bumfuzzle
01-28-2015, 06:53 PM
You guys are right, we should abolish the idea of fun times mode, I as a player see how well the game is doing with no fun times mode, let us abolish fun times mode! and let the millions of players that love special decks and fun time decks to stay!

Irony tag/ emergency protocol enabled.

Licker34
01-28-2015, 07:02 PM
I don't think you understand how Irony mode is supposed to work.

See, what you write has to actually be ironic!

Havenworld
01-29-2015, 07:56 PM
Orinally Posted by NIllicomes
I believe that players play those stall decks to counter creature decks. I don't think they do it to face other stall decks...

Like Nillicomes says, players who play mill/rage/slow decks don't want to face same kind of decks themselves. In other words, they are enjoying the game at the expense ot their opponents "fun."
The game should be fun for both players, but these decks bore and frustrate many who reluctantly face them.

Nillicomes
01-29-2015, 08:09 PM
Players who play mill/rage/slow decks don't want to face same kind of decks. In other words, they are enjoying the game at the expense ot their opponents "fun."
The game should be fun for both players, but these decks bore and frustrate many who reluctantly face them.

Couldn't say it any better. I hate playing against those decks (GET REKT) myself for sure!
But I do enjoy beating them in the end!

KyojinNinja
01-29-2015, 10:26 PM
It's a well know fact everyone hates playing against mill and stall decks etc, so my idea is make a game mode where these decks are banned.

Everyone loves fighting vs Might and Magic is the traditional way, and eveyrone hates these crazy game game mechanics that are kinda novel sort of, but they are also really boring and just luck based to play against.

We shall call this new game mode, "fun times mode", and the old mode that would be full of these decks fighting each other shall be called, the "special person deck mode".

You sir had the best idead ever! Consider me on your player database. I shall give you 2 women from my collection.

Quarison
01-30-2015, 12:11 AM
It's a well know fact everyone hates playing against mill and stall decks etc, so my idea is make a game mode where these decks are banned.

Everyone loves fighting vs Might and Magic is the traditional way, and eveyrone hates these crazy game game mechanics that are kinda novel sort of, but they are also really boring and just luck based to play against.

We shall call this new game mode, "fun times mode", and the old mode that would be full of these decks fighting each other shall be called, the "special person deck mode".

Let me say from point of view, and with some data.


Saying It's a well known fact only with the threads on the forum and having a judgement about an issue is NOT right. If you check this forum, you will see that is a god damn wailing wall. And again if you check that you may not find any threads named "I LOVE STALL DECKS". Because when people likes to do something, they prefer not to share it. If you like doing something, you will do it. And they do exactly that. And when people do not like something, they complain about it. And this is the conflict here. You dont know how many players out there likes to play stall decks, you only see how many players who dont want to play. So jumping any conclusions from here is just a huge mistake.

Lets assume you're right, and there are lots of people who dont like to play against stall. You know what? Actually you can avoid it! All of this discussions are all about having fun or not. Then you can simply surrender against them. You actually dont care about your win ratio or another thing. You only care about having fun, playing with creatures, combat everywhere. So, surrundering should simply solves your problem, doesnt it? Oh wait.

Let's assume you're wrong, and that actually means there are lots of players out there who likes to play against stall decks, which just simply does not bother to type anything on the forums.

As I always wrote in lots of similar threads, stall decks are not OP decks, they're strong but you need to know how to play it. You need much more experience than playing an aggro deck (generally). There's not an I win button. And especially in standard mode, you need to think all your options before committing yourself. You said it's luck, i call it experience. You should try to play these stall decks if they're only luck orianted, and then send your replay and I can gladly show you how to improve your play. It's not that simple.

Let's say these changes have been made. Then you know what comes next? Yeah you're right, let's remove the spells(No creature action). Let's remove broken bridge(resembles stall), Let's remove Might of the Tribe(OMG!! his lesser creature killed my bigger creature), etc. etc. I can gladly increase the examples. Like, OMG! Banshee so OP. 2-0-3 Incorporeal and kills my fatties... etc. etc. And this will lead to a simple calculation creature combat, i bet you would not like either.

And for the record, In heroes of might and magic, heroes are invulnerable. You need to kill all the creatures to win. But in MMDoC, they are NOT. So, you can kill your opponent's hero to win the game, reminding in case you dont now, So this makes this game completely different. Yes the lore is the same, Yes creatures and heroes are coming from this lore but the game is totally different. Mechanics are different. etc.



The problem here is no one wants to take some counter cards in their deck, as always. Why? Because when you crave a creature card or a spell card that you seek, you draw a dispel, and you get demoralized, you remember why you take that dispel to your deck which is useless against an aggro deck, and you want to remove it. After you remove it, you face a stall deck and you can do nothing.

Let me make same comment from a stall players' point of view. I'm playing stall yeah. But they attack too much, so i need an altar of shadows to block them, some thrones to ensure i'm safe when he overcommits. Then you face another stall deck, lets say ignatius 1-1-5 deck, and you're getting angry, why? there altars and thrones are doing nothing but a burden. When you need a specific card, they keep coming to your hand. So after this painful experience and removing these thrones and etc, and take damage sources to your deck, Open a thread on the forum, cursing stall players.

Being totally honest. I really enjoy more to play stall decks after seeing forum threads like these. Because (nearly)every player who wrotes here does not know how to play against stalls. For instance, when i was playing dha mass rage, i did not managed to win more than %20 of my games against CuCu's deleb deck. But a random deleb? A piece of cake. You should learn how to play against every deck and if you still cant manage, then no one will oppose you.

zuom000
01-30-2015, 12:24 AM
offtop

While we are at it, we should ban all aoe mass removal spells. It is not fun to lay down 4 creatures to be wiped out by arkath's wrath!
And come to think of it, we should ban removal spells like soulreaver. No one likes to have their buffed unique instakilled.
Then we should remove events because they are sneaky. And stronghold cause i hate it!

Somebody being passive-agressive :D

/offtop

On topic, that idea plain sucks.

Licker34
01-31-2015, 04:27 AM
Sideboard really isn't an answer. How do you sideboard to counter inferNO?

Sideboard is just a way to kill combo decks which are vulnerable to silver bullets. Not sure that's really a good idea, but lots of people seem to think that there's only one 'right' way to play the game.

Also sideboard going into Bo3 matches is a terrible idea. Matches are long enough already, no need to double or triple it.

And, as should be obvious, the player base isn't really big enough to handle another split format.

malkorion
01-31-2015, 10:29 AM
Without sideboard: your matchup is decided for you, and your opponent defeated you with his combo.
With sideboard: you draw your silver bullets, and your opponent's strategy is void, his only win condition gone.

Licker34
01-31-2015, 06:08 PM
I totally disagree with you. We've been talking about all the objections you made, and about the benefits of sideboard. That's why a thread was started, it's always good to analize these topics with other people and realize one's opinions are relative and not always correct.

But by all means pass by, read what's been said, take the time to read other's people opinion.

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1000315-Looking-for-opinions-about-Sideboard

But of course SB it's not the sole solution to current game's issues, more is needed. It's just something that can make the game better, deeper, fairer. It's no coincidence that the most succesfull TCG in history invented it and uses it beyond any objection that can be made. Of course there is always gonna be people who doesn't like it, it's only natural, even the best features, and normally the best cards on TCG games will always have detractors. But if it works, even new things will help the game. I never liked the Dragon Crystal and 1turn rule, it seems to me unelegant, counterintuitive, a copy of HS coin, but for most people it seems to work fine, and discussion it's been started and closed about it so far. But sideboard it's never been discussed properly.

I've read that thread and my points here seem to be a summation of the issues with bringing the SB to MMDoC. Frankly I don't really care how it changes the meta, I do care that it will increase the time it takes to play a duel. I also care that the player base is small enough that I doubt it's a healthy thing to split it with another game play choice. Already the fracture between Open and Standard is a bit of a drain (though a necessary one).

My opinion is that SB is not a solution to anything. The only place for it would be in specific tournaments. If it is Incorporated into quick games then you will likely see another shrinking of the player base. That is without a more critical revamping of other issues plaguing the game right now.

It would also require whatever dev attention it would require to implement. Frankly, I doubt anyone would be that happy about sideboarding getting more attention than balancing or draft or likely many other issues large and small which would do far more to make the game more robust and interesting.

Finally, because I really am interested. Tell me what decks you are playing where a sideboard is going to make a large difference vs. Kal, Kiril, Garant or Deleb? I can see sideboarding vs. Dhameria mass rage (if you have access to the right counters) but largely the effectiveness of those other inferNO heroes is that they really don't care what deck they are facing, they are going to win. The only real advantage I see is that you could swap around your events a little, adding in or taking out RotN, or CB as necessary. Even that is unlikely to produce much of a significant edge.

And that's the point right? You have this notion of sideboarding working like it does in MtG. But this isn't MtG, there's no reason why something which works in that games design is a defacto good inclusion for this game. You even mention the dragon crystal as compared to the coin in HS (though in that case I think the crystal was a good solution to a critical problem which was making the game really dependent on going 2nd).

Quarison
01-31-2015, 10:23 PM
Sideboard will not change the core problem here. It will make it much more RNG orianted. As infernal_wisdom and i talked, heroes like sandalphon and dhamiria will shine in this matchup, and will definetely not solve the problem.

For instance if your opponent is Dhamiria, you may not know if she's mass rage, or aggro, or slowpoke or etc.
For instance if your opponent is Sandalphon, you may not know if he's aggro or sandalock.

You can sacrifice some of your events to make sure your opponent will not have a clue and from there, it will be most likely just luck.


All is needed to learn how your opponent's deck is working and try to counter it with play and deckbuilding. When to play against hero, when to do play against his hero not for board control etc. But it's easier said than done.